Girls District Meet Stats
11/03/2019 11:15:46 AM
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[b]Class 1 Girls Stats[/b] 27 complete teams 27/101 = 26.73% of teams received a team score 281 total athletes [b]Class 2 Girls Stats[/b] 49 complete teams 49/103 = 47.57% of teams received a team score 417 total athletes [b]Class 3 Girls Stats[/b] 64 complete teams 64/104 = 61.54% of teams received a team score 491 total athletes [b]Class 4 Girls Stats[/b] 77 complete teams 77/100 = 77% of teams received a team score 564 total athletes
Class 1 Girls Stats

27 complete teams
27/101 = 26.73% of teams received a team score
281 total athletes

Class 2 Girls Stats

49 complete teams
49/103 = 47.57% of teams received a team score
417 total athletes

Class 3 Girls Stats

64 complete teams
64/104 = 61.54% of teams received a team score
491 total athletes

Class 4 Girls Stats

77 complete teams
77/100 = 77% of teams received a team score
564 total athletes
11/04/2019 4:07:41 PM
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@Big_Al_2112 Another way to look at the number! Girls: Enrollment breaks/Avg. enroll/sch/ runners/school/ % of runners/school 1-134/ 67/ 2.782/ 4.15% 135-309/ 222/ 4.04/ 1.82% 310-734/ 522/ 4.72/ .9% 735-1855/ 1,295/ 5.64/ .4% Boys: 1-134/ 67/ 3.86/ 5.79% 135-309/ 222/ 5.44/ 2.45% 310-734/ 522/ 5.82/ 1.1% 735-2055/ 1,395/ 6.39/ .45% I know that only seven runners are allowed to run and those %'s are directly proportional to school size. That favors your analysis and point of your post. And I am not disputing your post. I am just saying that "size matters" and we can grow the sport by growing it from the bottom by promoting opportunities for those smaller schools. There is not much opportunity for growth at the top in terms of adding teams. Now you might add more full teams in the top classes by reducing the numbers in those classes. The double enrollment standard will help moving forward as will adding additional teams and individual qualifiers to the state meet. We could use 4 runners as a way to address the number of full teams in the smaller classes. But we are all in this together and the best way to get it fixed is to raise participation at every level. I would love to see every school be able to field a full team at districts. One of the things we have done at Herculaneum to promote the sport is by hosting a middle school only meet at the end of the season. We finished our 14th annual Doe Run Invitational. We run in the city park and parts are on a trail in the woods with very few spectators (the kids love it). This year we gave out 50 medals per gender and grade level. so 50 to 7th grade girls, 50 to 7th grade boys and the same for 8th grade. The schools that have came from the beginning are Festus, Potosi, Ste. Gen., Arcadia Valley, Desoto and Herculaneum. I feel that this meet has helped grow the sport in our area and the end results are readily apparent in the successes of the teams that come and participate. IMO
@Big_Al_2112

Another way to look at the number!
Girls:

Enrollment breaks/Avg. enroll/sch/ runners/school/ % of runners/school

1-134/ 67/ 2.782/ 4.15%
135-309/ 222/ 4.04/ 1.82%
310-734/ 522/ 4.72/ .9%
735-1855/ 1,295/ 5.64/ .4%

Boys:
1-134/ 67/ 3.86/ 5.79%
135-309/ 222/ 5.44/ 2.45%
310-734/ 522/ 5.82/ 1.1%
735-2055/ 1,395/ 6.39/ .45%
I know that only seven runners are allowed to run and those %'s are directly proportional to school size. That favors your analysis and point of your post. And I am not disputing your post. I am just saying that "size matters" and we can grow the sport by growing it from the bottom by promoting opportunities for those smaller schools. There is not much opportunity for growth at the top in terms of adding teams. Now you might add more full teams in the top classes by reducing the numbers in those classes.
The double enrollment standard will help moving forward as will adding additional teams and individual qualifiers to the state meet. We could use 4 runners as a way to address the number of full teams in the smaller classes. But we are all in this together and the best way to get it fixed is to raise participation at every level. I would love to see every school be able to field a full team at districts.
One of the things we have done at Herculaneum to promote the sport is by hosting a middle school only meet at the end of the season. We finished our 14th annual Doe Run Invitational. We run in the city park and parts are on a trail in the woods with very few spectators (the kids love it). This year we gave out 50 medals per gender and grade level. so 50 to 7th grade girls, 50 to 7th grade boys and the same for 8th grade. The schools that have came from the beginning are Festus, Potosi, Ste. Gen., Arcadia Valley, Desoto and Herculaneum. I feel that this meet has helped grow the sport in our area and the end results are readily apparent in the successes of the teams that come and participate.
IMO
11/04/2019 5:49:58 PM
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@JIMKASTEN1 Speaking of Doe Run this year, my younger son had a blast running in the rain! He got 9th and my older son was jealous as he did not get to run it this year. They always loved Doe Run! My younger son Greg just kind of followed in his brother Jimmys foot steps and never truly got into running until the Doe Run race last year, as it was his first medal! This year he medaled every race! Doe Run made him hungry and now he wants to qualify for state like his brother! Thank you for putting that race on.
@JIMKASTEN1

Speaking of Doe Run this year, my younger son had a blast running in the rain! He got 9th and my older son was jealous as he did not get to run it this year. They always loved Doe Run! My younger son Greg just kind of followed in his brother Jimmys foot steps and never truly got into running until the Doe Run race last year, as it was his first medal! This year he medaled every race! Doe Run made him hungry and now he wants to qualify for state like his brother! Thank you for putting that race on.
11/05/2019 8:46:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2052
LAST YEAR's Stats for everyone to consider. If you divide the actual teams that ran at least five different athletes last year each class should only have 64 schools. 97 teams in Class 4 ran five kids on the girls side 67 teams in Class 3 " " 63 teams in Class 2 " " 35 teams in Class 1 " " Total 5k finishing athletes for each class on the girls side Class 4 1924 (sectional break down Sec 1 437, [b]Sec 2 631![/b], Sec 3 376, Sec 4 480) Class 3 just under 900 Class 2 557 Class 1 367 Looking at these numbers it becomes VERY clear what adjustments would need to be done moving to Five classes next year. The brunt of the volume of runners and teams is in one class and shouldn't have the same number of schools to go up against. Especially, when you look at sectional 2 I have heard scuttlebutt that our class five next year will have upwards to 100 schools. This shouldn't happen in XC or track in respects to fairness the numbers just do not support that decision.
LAST YEAR's Stats for everyone to consider.

If you divide the actual teams that ran at least five different athletes last year each class should only have 64 schools.

97 teams in Class 4 ran five kids on the girls side
67 teams in Class 3 " "
63 teams in Class 2 " "
35 teams in Class 1 " "

Total 5k finishing athletes for each class on the girls side
Class 4 1924 (sectional break down Sec 1 437, Sec 2 631!, Sec 3 376, Sec 4 480)
Class 3 just under 900
Class 2 557
Class 1 367

Looking at these numbers it becomes VERY clear what adjustments would need to be done moving to Five classes next year. The brunt of the volume of runners and teams is in one class and shouldn't have the same number of schools to go up against. Especially, when you look at sectional 2 I have heard scuttlebutt that our class five next year will have upwards to 100 schools. This shouldn't happen in XC or track in respects to fairness the numbers just do not support that decision.
11/05/2019 9:04:19 AM
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As the largest school in the state, Blue Springs will set the enrollment curve. Last year, there were 85 schools within half the size of them. However, that would put only 66 schools in Class 4. That will not happen. Look for C5 to have somewhere in the 60s and C4 just slightly more. This is all based on last school years enrollments. This year’s numbers will come out a week from Friday.
As the largest school in the state, Blue Springs will set the enrollment curve. Last year, there were 85 schools within half the size of them. However, that would put only 66 schools in Class 4. That will not happen. Look for C5 to have somewhere in the 60s and C4 just slightly more.
This is all based on last school years enrollments. This year's numbers will come out a week from Friday.
11/19/2019 2:42:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1107
J. Kasten, While I see your point, I will take the contrarian view. As a team near the bottom of the current class 4 (both in terms of school size and team ability), I can tell you it was much, much easier to recruit kids when we were in class 3 competing against schools our size rather than schools well over twice our size. When we had some decent possibility of getting a team or even just multiple individuals to the state meet, more kids would come out, and the kids that did would take it more seriously. The truth of this point was driven home at our class 4 district 7 meet. There were 13 schools there that are listed as having girls teams. Only 6 fielded a complete team. I think the overwhelming sense among runners at schools like Ray-South, Grandview, and even some other, more "suburban" schools like Truman and Wm. Chrisman is that the big rich white schools with 35 to 50 or more girls/boys on their teams are going to dominate anyway, and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. Now I know that sounds whiny, and I don't mean to whine. But I am never going to get kids on my team again who really want to work when the only reward is the chance to finish 50th at the district meet. I am sorry but that just isn't incentive enough, and it is probably the best any of my kids could have reasonably done this year. Maybe in the future I could get a kid or two with a little more talent, but from where I sit right now, my only hope of rebuilding anything resembling a real cross-country team again depends on us being in a class with schools closer to our size. I am sorry if that means that a few bigger class 1 teams have to move up to class 2, but if you look at their participation percentages listed above, they already have a pretty large percentage of their population out for cross-country. (Let's be honest, 10% of your school out for cross-country would be about the absolute limit I think anyone could hope for, except for maybe at a VERY small school.) Sean Nunn Raytown South
J. Kasten,

While I see your point, I will take the contrarian view. As a team near the bottom of the current class 4 (both in terms of school size and team ability), I can tell you it was much, much easier to recruit kids when we were in class 3 competing against schools our size rather than schools well over twice our size. When we had some decent possibility of getting a team or even just multiple individuals to the state meet, more kids would come out, and the kids that did would take it more seriously.

The truth of this point was driven home at our class 4 district 7 meet. There were 13 schools there that are listed as having girls teams. Only 6 fielded a complete team. I think the overwhelming sense among runners at schools like Ray-South, Grandview, and even some other, more "suburban" schools like Truman and Wm. Chrisman is that the big rich white schools with 35 to 50 or more girls/boys on their teams are going to dominate anyway, and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. Now I know that sounds whiny, and I don't mean to whine. But I am never going to get kids on my team again who really want to work when the only reward is the chance to finish 50th at the district meet. I am sorry but that just isn't incentive enough, and it is probably the best any of my kids could have reasonably done this year.

Maybe in the future I could get a kid or two with a little more talent, but from where I sit right now, my only hope of rebuilding anything resembling a real cross-country team again depends on us being in a class with schools closer to our size. I am sorry if that means that a few bigger class 1 teams have to move up to class 2, but if you look at their participation percentages listed above, they already have a pretty large percentage of their population out for cross-country. (Let's be honest, 10% of your school out for cross-country would be about the absolute limit I think anyone could hope for, except for maybe at a VERY small school.)

Sean Nunn
Raytown South
11/19/2019 5:22:33 PM
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I will be surprised if cross country will ever be determined again by the number of girls programs. The recommendation at from the CC advisory committee was that current C1 will stay the same when we move to 5 classes. To amend what I had posted before, roughly 72 each in C5 and C4, 82 each in C3 and C2 and 103 in C1. Numbers not in stone and the BOD has not approved yet.
I will be surprised if cross country will ever be determined again by the number of girls programs. The recommendation at from the CC advisory committee was that current C1 will stay the same when we move to 5 classes.
To amend what I had posted before, roughly 72 each in C5 and C4, 82 each in C3 and C2 and 103 in C1. Numbers not in stone and the BOD has not approved yet.
11/21/2019 11:58:57 AM
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@Hays I understand that. The principle is somewhat the same for boys, although the data is admittedly not as conclusive. The smallest schools in the current class 4A in the Kansas City are mostly "have not" schools. Dropping them down into the new class 4 gives them (us) at least some small chance of competing for a place at the state meet, which makes it considerably to recruit and motivate more kids. Sean Nunn Raytown South
@Hays

I understand that. The principle is somewhat the same for boys, although the data is admittedly not as conclusive. The smallest schools in the current class 4A in the Kansas City are mostly "have not" schools. Dropping them down into the new class 4 gives them (us) at least some small chance of competing for a place at the state meet, which makes it considerably to recruit and motivate more kids.

Sean Nunn
Raytown South

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