Training Considerations
11/11/2019 1:06:35 PM
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Now that the state meet has passed, what considerations are you making to your 2020 season training plans? Personally, I would like to do more work with pacing over 1000m vs miles. I also want to develop a 4th km surge mentality.
Now that the state meet has passed, what considerations are you making to your 2020 season training plans?

Personally, I would like to do more work with pacing over 1000m vs miles. I also want to develop a 4th km surge mentality.
11/12/2019 1:28:53 PM
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@coachterry I will start by saying we aren't very good, so these are more just off the cuff comments about the sport in Missouri than a commentary about we are actually going to do. Now that the state meet has been almost completely wussified, it seems like the logical thing to do would be to focus on speed, and only do enough endurance work to allow kids to finish 5000m, barely. If all we care about in the sport now is fast times, then that's what needs to be done. Personally I abhor that mentality; it runs counter to everything that the sport has the potential to teach our kids. Give me the old days when the state course was TOUGH and no one cared what your time was except in relation to the times of others on that same course on the same day. So with that said, throw out any long runs much over an hour, long tempo runs, any workouts on big hills, etc. Focus on speed and whatever gets you to the line the fastest on flat courses with perfect footing. Sean Nunn Raytown South
@coachterry

I will start by saying we aren't very good, so these are more just off the cuff comments about the sport in Missouri than a commentary about we are actually going to do.

Now that the state meet has been almost completely wussified, it seems like the logical thing to do would be to focus on speed, and only do enough endurance work to allow kids to finish 5000m, barely.

If all we care about in the sport now is fast times, then that's what needs to be done. Personally I abhor that mentality; it runs counter to everything that the sport has the potential to teach our kids. Give me the old days when the state course was TOUGH and no one cared what your time was except in relation to the times of others on that same course on the same day.

So with that said, throw out any long runs much over an hour, long tempo runs, any workouts on big hills, etc. Focus on speed and whatever gets you to the line the fastest on flat courses with perfect footing.

Sean Nunn
Raytown South
11/12/2019 1:31:51 PM
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One thing I am curious about is how everyone else handled the heat this fall. It was hot (near 100 heat indexes) in KC for all of August and most of September. How do you do tempo runs, longer interval workouts, etc., when the heat guidelines call for reduction of volume and modification of workouts in those conditions? I am all about working hard, but I don't want to see kids getting heatstrokes because I sent them on an 8 mile run when it was nearly 100 degrees outside. Sean Nunn Raytown South
One thing I am curious about is how everyone else handled the heat this fall. It was hot (near 100 heat indexes) in KC for all of August and most of September. How do you do tempo runs, longer interval workouts, etc., when the heat guidelines call for reduction of volume and modification of workouts in those conditions? I am all about working hard, but I don't want to see kids getting heatstrokes because I sent them on an 8 mile run when it was nearly 100 degrees outside.

Sean Nunn
Raytown South
11/13/2019 3:33:02 PM
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Building into our training mental skull sessions into the week on regular basis.
Building into our training mental skull sessions into the week on regular basis.
11/14/2019 10:11:49 AM
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I usually agree with you, Sean, and the times were definitely fast; however, while that course is flatter and faster than Oak Hills, for sure, to say there aren't challenging parts just isn't accurate. While I admit my sample size of my kids racing on the course is only 2, the first 2000-3000 meters of the course is so easy, spectator friendly, and adrenaline filled that it just entices runners to go out too fast. Then, just past the 2 mile there is a 600-800m hill that just flat kicks your butt if you went out too hard and is pretty unforgiving. We learned this the hard way at the Gans Creek Classic and had to make some adjustments after that heading into State. In my opinion, you have to get out in a good position on that course but you have to maintain control of yourself through the 1k then start moving up. Looking at the results, there wasn't a whole lot of movement from the 3K to the finish, so (just like at Oak Hills) you pretty much had to be in the vicinity of where you wanted to finish at the 3K/3200M marks. That honestly didn't change much from course to course. As far as training, I think going slightly more with anaerobic stuff earlier is the adjustment a lot of coaches will try to take because of how the course ran, but if you aren't aerobically fit then you aren't going to do well on any 5,000M course... Period. We won't change much in the way of anaerobic training, and honestly, our boy who ran pretty well didn't do anything under 3200M pace all year and barely even went under 5000M pace on anything all season and still was able to attack that course pretty well and run 15:52 off of mostly long runs, tempo runs, and some slightly faster than 5000m pace stuff, but he might just be a different type of kid than many others. Just my 2 cents, I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel but maybe I'm just getting old and set in my ways too much, lol :)
I usually agree with you, Sean, and the times were definitely fast; however, while that course is flatter and faster than Oak Hills, for sure, to say there aren't challenging parts just isn't accurate. While I admit my sample size of my kids racing on the course is only 2, the first 2000-3000 meters of the course is so easy, spectator friendly, and adrenaline filled that it just entices runners to go out too fast. Then, just past the 2 mile there is a 600-800m hill that just flat kicks your butt if you went out too hard and is pretty unforgiving. We learned this the hard way at the Gans Creek Classic and had to make some adjustments after that heading into State.

In my opinion, you have to get out in a good position on that course but you have to maintain control of yourself through the 1k then start moving up. Looking at the results, there wasn't a whole lot of movement from the 3K to the finish, so (just like at Oak Hills) you pretty much had to be in the vicinity of where you wanted to finish at the 3K/3200M marks. That honestly didn't change much from course to course.

As far as training, I think going slightly more with anaerobic stuff earlier is the adjustment a lot of coaches will try to take because of how the course ran, but if you aren't aerobically fit then you aren't going to do well on any 5,000M course... Period. We won't change much in the way of anaerobic training, and honestly, our boy who ran pretty well didn't do anything under 3200M pace all year and barely even went under 5000M pace on anything all season and still was able to attack that course pretty well and run 15:52 off of mostly long runs, tempo runs, and some slightly faster than 5000m pace stuff, but he might just be a different type of kid than many others.

Just my 2 cents, I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel but maybe I'm just getting old and set in my ways too much, lol :)
11/19/2019 2:13:16 PM
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GVEagles, That is good to know. Honestly I am trying to figure out how to coach the athletes that I have better. Maybe I just need to get better athletes. What you are doing sounds a lot like what we did in the mid-2000's when we had several all-staters. As far as the course, I was just going by times. Nothing against this year's top runners but I don't honestly believe that any of the boys are anywhere near the fitness that Borsa, Teg, or Hindman had, so the fact that the winning class 4 time was faster than any of them ever ran speaks to the course being at least slightly easier. None of them had perfect weather conditions in the final state run either though, so maybe it was more a function of the weather. Of course if the Rockhurst kid runs 8:50 this spring then I will gladly eat my words, since I always root for KC kids to do well. Sean Nunn
GVEagles,

That is good to know. Honestly I am trying to figure out how to coach the athletes that I have better. Maybe I just need to get better athletes. What you are doing sounds a lot like what we did in the mid-2000's when we had several all-staters. As far as the course, I was just going by times. Nothing against this year's top runners but I don't honestly believe that any of the boys are anywhere near the fitness that Borsa, Teg, or Hindman had, so the fact that the winning class 4 time was faster than any of them ever ran speaks to the course being at least slightly easier. None of them had perfect weather conditions in the final state run either though, so maybe it was more a function of the weather. Of course if the Rockhurst kid runs 8:50 this spring then I will gladly eat my words, since I always root for KC kids to do well.

Sean Nunn
11/20/2019 9:54:00 AM
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I used to take my athletes to Jefferson Barracks, Festus and Potosi as the courses are hilly and challenging to get us ready for Jeff City state meet. This year we attended Potosi meet as it is our conference meet. We used to thrive on being a hill running team and take pride on passing other teams on the hills. Now it is a whole different style of running as speed is new name of the game. 129 boys in class 4 ran under 17:00. top 25 in class 4 girls was 19:03. 25th place in girls class2 last year was a 21:45 this year it was 20:19. Yes this is a game changer. We also did 1 mile repeats for workouts we changed those to 1000 this year as the new state course is marked with 1km. We did run a lot better at the state meet as all my qualifiers ran a personal best but lets be realistic so did 90% of the entire state.
I used to take my athletes to Jefferson Barracks, Festus and Potosi as the courses are hilly and challenging to get us ready for Jeff City state meet. This year we attended Potosi meet as it is our conference meet. We used to thrive on being a hill running team and take pride on passing other teams on the hills. Now it is a whole different style of running as speed is new name of the game.
129 boys in class 4 ran under 17:00. top 25 in class 4 girls was 19:03. 25th place in girls class2 last year was a 21:45 this year it was 20:19. Yes this is a game changer.
We also did 1 mile repeats for workouts we changed those to 1000 this year as the new state course is marked with 1km.
We did run a lot better at the state meet as all my qualifiers ran a personal best but lets be realistic so did 90% of the entire state.

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