Indoor vs. Outdoor times
01/28/2008 10:05:10 PM
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Are there any good rules of thumb to compare an athlete's indoor and outdoor times for say 400, 800, mile and 3200 distances? Perhaps there are no simple answers that are generally consistent because of the wide range of conditions (e.g. banked vs. non-banked curves, outdoor wind, outdoor temperatures, etc.). It would be interesting to look at some experienced college runners' times and to compare times between the last indoor meets of a season vs. the first outdoor. Or do any experienced runners have any comments on their personal history?
Are there any good rules of thumb to compare an athlete's indoor and outdoor times for say 400, 800, mile and 3200 distances? Perhaps there are no simple answers that are generally consistent because of the wide range of conditions (e.g. banked vs. non-banked curves, outdoor wind, outdoor temperatures, etc.). It would be interesting to look at some experienced college runners' times and to compare times between the last indoor meets of a season vs. the first outdoor. Or do any experienced runners have any comments on their personal history?
01/28/2008 11:54:55 PM
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This is my son and daughter's first year to run indoor track. He is a 3 yr outdoor track letterman and state qualifier, she is a freshman who ran track in JR high. They both agree that there is something more difficult about indoor track than outdoor, especially those who have never run indoors before. They tell me its a mind game and they don't like it. The indoor track is shorter and usually takes twice as many laps as an outdoor track to cover the same amount of ground. They've run 2 indoor meets so far and they say it is mentally hard to run because all you can think about is the enormous amount of laps that are left to run. BTW, the 3000m race at this weekend's race was 12 laps,...somehow they managed to send him around the track 2 extra laps. They must have confused him with some other runner.
This is my son and daughter's first year to run indoor track. He is a 3 yr outdoor track letterman and state qualifier, she is a freshman who ran track in JR high. They both agree that there is something more difficult about indoor track than outdoor, especially those who have never run indoors before. They tell me its a mind game and they don't like it. The indoor track is shorter and usually takes twice as many laps as an outdoor track to cover the same amount of ground. They've run 2 indoor meets so far and they say it is mentally hard to run because all you can think about is the enormous amount of laps that are left to run. BTW, the 3000m race at this weekend's race was 12 laps,...somehow they managed to send him around the track 2 extra laps. They must have confused him with some other runner.
01/29/2008 12:58:33 AM
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was the track 250 meters? because i though indoor tracks were 200 meters.
was the track 250 meters? because i though indoor tracks were 200 meters.
01/29/2008 2:30:32 AM
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[quote=koolkat81991]was the track 250 meters? because i though indoor tracks were 200 meters.[/quote] If 12 laps was 2 laps extra that would have made the track 300m (i.e. Iowa State). Indoor tracks come in a variety of lengths, although 200m is the most common. I would say that the psychological factor plays very little in the discrepancy. I find it hard to believe that Bekele is overwhelmed by having to run 15 laps for 3000m. However, having to run twice as many laps means having to run twice as many turns, and the sharper turns account for the slower times. This is why the conversion from a banked or "oversized" track isn't as much as a 200m or less flat track. If Coach Hipp sees this thread he will probably be able to post the NCAA qualifying standards for the different type of indoor tracks, so that you can get an idea of the generally accepted differences.
koolkat81991 wrote:
was the track 250 meters? because i though indoor tracks were 200 meters.


If 12 laps was 2 laps extra that would have made the track 300m (i.e. Iowa State). Indoor tracks come in a variety of lengths, although 200m is the most common. I would say that the psychological factor plays very little in the discrepancy. I find it hard to believe that Bekele is overwhelmed by having to run 15 laps for 3000m. However, having to run twice as many laps means having to run twice as many turns, and the sharper turns account for the slower times. This is why the conversion from a banked or "oversized" track isn't as much as a 200m or less flat track.

If Coach Hipp sees this thread he will probably be able to post the NCAA qualifying standards for the different type of indoor tracks, so that you can get an idea of the generally accepted differences.
01/29/2008 9:40:13 AM
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Rob roy, as I rule I usually adjust each 200m lap by 1.1 seconds. So a a 52.2 400m on a flat 200m track would be about a 50 flat, and so on and so forth. I did not find this formula anywhere how ever. I really based iit on my 10+ years of running indoor and outdoor track and how I performed in both settings. Last Wednesday, I had a young lady test at 56.6 for 400m and another one test @ 58.4. They asked me what I thought they would run at the meet this past Sunday. I told the 56.6 gilr that I expected her to be around 58.7 and I told the other one I thought she would at least run 61. The both were almost dead on in terms of the predictions. One was 58.8 FAT and the other was 60.4 FAT. Try that and see how it works.
Rob roy, as I rule I usually adjust each 200m lap by 1.1 seconds. So a a 52.2 400m on a flat 200m track would be about a 50 flat, and so on and so forth. I did not find this formula anywhere how ever. I really based iit on my 10+ years of running indoor and outdoor track and how I performed in both settings. Last Wednesday, I had a young lady test at 56.6 for 400m and another one test @ 58.4. They asked me what I thought they would run at the meet this past Sunday. I told the 56.6 gilr that I expected her to be around 58.7 and I told the other one I thought she would at least run 61. The both were almost dead on in terms of the predictions. One was 58.8 FAT and the other was 60.4 FAT. Try that and see how it works.
01/29/2008 9:50:32 AM
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I like your math...that means my kid who ran 2:03.5 at MSSU is at around a 1:59.1 right now...that's pretty good for January...
I like your math...that means my kid who ran 2:03.5 at MSSU is at around a 1:59.1 right now...that's pretty good for January...
01/29/2008 9:51:08 AM
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What about the mile and other races that are done at less intense speed? Do the same rules apply?
What about the mile and other races that are done at less intense speed? Do the same rules apply?
01/29/2008 11:59:56 AM
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Certainly the newer indoor tracks are easier to run on than the old 11 lap to a mile, steeply banked and curved boards that we used to run on "back in the day". On the old tracks, it was a frontrunners game...if you didn't get out in the front pack, all you saw and tasted were spikes, elbows, and sawdust.
Certainly the newer indoor tracks are easier to run on than the old 11 lap to a mile, steeply banked and curved boards that we used to run on "back in the day". On the old tracks, it was a frontrunners game...if you didn't get out in the front pack, all you saw and tasted were spikes, elbows, and sawdust.
01/29/2008 2:11:08 PM
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not to mention the splinters in your eyes! I remeber clemsons old 4 laner and Virginia techs super banked track. Talk about running down hill!
not to mention the splinters in your eyes! I remeber clemsons old 4 laner and Virginia techs super banked track. Talk about running down hill!
01/29/2008 2:12:58 PM
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[quote=chester1976]I like your math...that means my kid who ran 2:03.5 at MSSU is at around a 1:59.1 right now...that's pretty good for January...[/quote] If your kids ran 2:03 at Joplin I would definatly expect him to open up with 1:58 mid outdoors. GOOD STUFF!!! Any official results from that meet?
chester1976 wrote:
I like your math...that means my kid who ran 2:03.5 at MSSU is at around a 1:59.1 right now...that's pretty good for January...


If your kids ran 2:03 at Joplin I would definatly expect him to open up with 1:58 mid outdoors. GOOD STUFF!!! Any official results from that meet?
01/29/2008 2:33:37 PM
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They were supposed to be online immediately after the meet...I haven't seen any results yet. It was good to see John Williams run well in front of Coach Rutledge (John is going to MSSU).
They were supposed to be online immediately after the meet...I haven't seen any results yet. It was good to see John Williams run well in front of Coach Rutledge (John is going to MSSU).
01/29/2008 3:00:00 PM
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http://www.precision-timing.com/2008/resultspageframe.htm I posted this to Tracy However, it was removed but was not posted in the results page. It could be coming soon. But in the mean time if you go to that link it should get you were you want to be.
http://www.precision-timing.com/2008/resultspageframe.htm

I posted this to Tracy

However, it was removed but was not posted in the results page. It could be coming soon. But in the mean time if you go to that link it should get you were you want to be.
01/29/2008 8:48:22 PM
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http://www.precision-timing.com/2008/resultspageframe.htm Link to MSSU HS indoor meet
http://www.precision-timing.com/2008/resultspageframe.htm

Link to MSSU HS indoor meet
01/29/2008 10:04:32 PM
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Guys , Thanks for the link. I have been looking for them since Sunday. Ryan, your previous post had no link.
Guys ,

Thanks for the link. I have been looking for them since Sunday.

Ryan, your previous post had no link.
01/30/2008 3:12:02 PM
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I would think that the 1 second per 200m would be a good estimate to start with. For a flat track, maybe even a little more. For a fast banked track like Arkansas, probably a little bit less. (The 200m has been run under 20 indoors). This would probably break down in longer races. If you are only running 6:00/mile or slower, I am not sure that there is ANY disadvantage at all to an indoor track. Sean Nunn Raytown South
I would think that the 1 second per 200m would be a good estimate to start with. For a flat track, maybe even a little more. For a fast banked track like Arkansas, probably a little bit less. (The 200m has been run under 20 indoors). This would probably break down in longer races. If you are only running 6:00/mile or slower, I am not sure that there is ANY disadvantage at all to an indoor track.

Sean Nunn
Raytown South
02/01/2008 11:24:17 AM
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What about the TRACK at KU can anyone give me an idea about that track is it banked, 200 meters etc. Dyestat finally put up results for the meet and highlighted Mitchell and usrey. I was just wondering beside them what other times could we convert?
What about the TRACK at KU can anyone give me an idea about that track is it banked, 200 meters etc. Dyestat finally put up results for the meet and highlighted Mitchell and usrey. I was just wondering beside them what other times could we convert?
02/01/2008 12:02:34 PM
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300 Meters and not banked.
300 Meters and not banked.
02/01/2008 12:46:43 PM
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[quote=bantazmo]What about the TRACK at KU can anyone give me an idea about that track is it banked, 200 meters etc. Dyestat finally put up results for the meet and highlighted Mitchell and usrey. I was just wondering beside them what other times could we convert?[/quote] Good for ---stat. We've had them posted here since the evening of the meet. Latest meet results are posted on the front page on the right under the Countdown clocks or, at the top of the page under results. If they are out there I will have them 99.9% of the time.
bantazmo wrote:
What about the TRACK at KU can anyone give me an idea about that track is it banked, 200 meters etc. Dyestat finally put up results for the meet and highlighted Mitchell and usrey. I was just wondering beside them what other times could we convert?


Good for ---stat. We've had them posted here since the evening of the meet.

Latest meet results are posted on the front page on the right under the Countdown clocks or, at the top of the page under results.

If they are out there I will have them 99.9% of the time.
02/01/2008 12:56:03 PM
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KU? I'm thought that it is not 300m. I remember it being some weird amount between 200 and 300. Not a true oval either. I also just realized that busdriver was talking about the KU meet where his son had to run 2 extra laps...so maybe I am wrong. Or maybe 12 laps was right for 3000m.
KU? I'm thought that it is not 300m. I remember it being some weird amount between 200 and 300. Not a true oval either.

I also just realized that busdriver was talking about the KU meet where his son had to run 2 extra laps...so maybe I am wrong. Or maybe 12 laps was right for 3000m.
02/01/2008 5:51:18 PM
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CC I know they were on this site the day of. However, I had no clue that at KU there was some serious blazing times! So looking at KU and the discussion of indoor I was really interested to know what KUs track was like to get some projections for these guys outdoors. It looks to be a fast year! :)
CC I know they were on this site the day of. However, I had no clue that at KU there was some serious blazing times! So looking at KU and the discussion of indoor I was really interested to know what KUs track was like to get some projections for these guys outdoors. It looks to be a fast year! :)

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